*...2...3...4...5...6...(door) Tom: Greetings viewers and welcome to the Satellite of Love! As you know, I'm Tom Servo. Mike: And I'm Mike Nelson. Crow: And I'm TV's wise-cracking Crow. Tom: With a special deal for all you out there who want to make more money! Just take five groumpas and drop them into a black hole, and your name will be submitted to the universal e-mail list. Crow: Within days you'll be receiving groumpas back out of your black hole as others send theirs... (light flashes) Crow: What the...? Mike: A little early isn't it? Tom: Yeah. Well, don't just gawk at it, hit the light. Mike: Okay. (Deep 13) Dr. Forrester: (fuming) Why the nerve... (SOL) Mike: Something wrong, oh ye with the funny hair-do? (Deep 13) Dr. Forrester: Yes there's something wrong! Something's very wrong! Someone's moving in on my turf! Trying to take over my area and claim it as theirs! (SOL) Tom: Uhhh, okay. Crow: What are you talking about? (Deep 13) Dr. Forrester: Someone is trying to take over the trolling duties of *my* newsgroup! Look at this! He even crossposted to other groups, that sneaky.... (SOL) Mike: Well, surely there's room for more than one troll... (Deep 13) Dr. Forrester: Never! This group is mine, and always will be! I marked my territory! I sprayed out my urinary boundaries! No one else will be allowed to interfere!! (SOL) Tom: Okay okay. Just calm down Mike: What are you going to do? (Deep 13) Dr. Forrester: Unleash the worst possible thing I can upon him. How's it going Frank? Frank: Bad news Steve. The lawyers say that murder is still illeagal. Dr. Forrester: What? This is an outrage! What did I pay all that money to the Clinton campaign for? (SOL) Crow: Gee, I'll bet with all that's going on you won't be able to send us an experiment this week huh. (Deep 13) Dr. Forrester: Of course I.......(laughs evily) Frank, are you thinking what I'm thinking? Frank: Yeah, Diet Dr. Pepper tastes just like regular Dr. Pepper. Dr. Forrester: (slaps him) I have an even better idea my little pests. I've got just the thing for you today. (laughs evily) (SOL) Mike: Uh oh, this sounds bad. (Deep 13) Dr. Forrester: You bet it is Nelstone! I've got a troll post coming your way that'll teach you and him a lesson about respecting me!! I'm sure you'll see that The One Argument That Matters really doesn't. Oh, and no need to pull your punches Nelson, let him really have it! (SOL) Mike, Tom, Crow: Oh, we've got crosspost sign!!! 6...5...4...3...2...* >Subject: The One Argument That Matters Tom: Betty Crocker vs. Duncan Hines! >Date: 1999/08/24 Crow: (as FDR) A day that will live..in infamy. >Author: Timothy Jones Mike: (singing) Mis-ter JONEs and me, staring at the vid-eo... > Tom: He argues Star Trek against Babylon 5 and Star Wars, but he's really a Dr. Who fan? > > >The only advantage Trek needs to win isn't even in dispute. Mike: A miracle. >Someone has suggested: Crow: That I leave. > > > Ultimately, the better crew would win :) > >And other such diplomatic ideas before. Tom: And some that were downright rude! >The good guys will win. Crow: Apparently he never saw The Phantom Menace. >It depends who's writing the story. Mike: If Kevin J. Anderson writes it, we all lose. >It depends which world they're in. Crow: Last I check, ships don't do well inside worlds. >It depends who fires first. Tom: Oh, like Greedo. >And so on. > >These are all well-thought and noble sentiments. Mike: There's two adjectives that have never described him. >Usually, my >response consists of Crow: Bullshit. Complete and absolute bullshit. >such arguments that Trek shields (which B5 lacks) Mike: I wouldn't expect B5 to have Trek shields. Tom: He has a case of rip-off dyslexia. >and tougher hulls give a strong edge, or that Trek weapons are many >times more powerfull. Mike: These responses are ignored as the fantasy they are. >But with both the star wars crowd and the B5ers, >the facts that prove these things are rarely accepted, Tom: Well neither are the existence of leprechauns. >though I consider the excuses for this to be just that. Crow: The excuses are accepted? Mike: No the excuses are excuses. Crow: Excuses are excuses? Wow, he is a philosophy major isn't he. >So instead, I'm just going to point Tom: A gun at my head. >out the one thing that you, like >they, seem to be overlooking. Crow: My breasts! >The one factor which, irrespective of the >rest, ends *both* debates with Trek starships prevailing. Tom: Oh, he's bringing in Q. >I'm talking about, of course, warp drive. Mike: Ah,....of course.....warp drive... ? >I don't think any side is going to accept that any other has >significantly superior weapons, hulls, shields, sensors, sensor- >jammers, *or* crews. Tom: Er, not when science tells us otherwise. >It is my opinion Mike: Oo, hush everyone, he's giving his opinion! Crow and Tom: Oo, Oo, let's see! >that Trek has a clear and rather >wide supremacy in all of these extraneous things, Tom: He's right. Weapons, shields and armor are total irrelevent in a space battle. >in relation to both >B5 and star wars. But I can also see the reality Crow: No, I don't think you see reality. That's the problem. >of the situation in these debates. As obvious as they appear to me, the >fact of the matter is Mike: You can't put your elbow in your ear. >they've been going on for a long time, even warranting their own >dedicated newsgroups! {Like these.} Tom, Mike, and Crow: (looking around) Mike: What the?! Why yes, there are newsgroup dedicated to them! Tom: What a revelation! >But you know, it really doesn't matter. Crow: Boy, he's just full of wisdom today. Mike: Perhaps you'd like to tell us that we're using the internet. >Because if we are left >with the apparant default situation we seem to be in the position of >being forced to work with (if we *ever* -- and I do mean *EVER* -- Crow: Wait a minute, I'll buy that excuses are excuses, but not that ever is ever! >want to be listened to by the other side, get through to them one iota, >and make any kind of real progress in these discussions), Tom: We have to obey netiquette. Mike: Use common sense. Crow: And for the love of God, put some pants on! >namely that the hulls, "shields," Tom: Lucky he put that in quotes, I thought he meant real metal shields for a second. >sensors, jammers, weapons, and yes even the crews are >going to have to be treated as being more-or-less equal between the >involved storyworlds... Tom: Ah, so now we're going to omit pretty much all of the evidence then. Mike: Well this should empty the newsgroups out. >if, I say, this is what we're going to have to >jointly agree to settle for in order to stop going in circles with each >other forever, Tom: Forever arguing with Tim?! Crow: Oh Lord, there's your definition of hell right there. Mike: Even hell can't be that bad. >if *that* is where we are left to base our positions on, >then people, Tom: PEOPLE!!! >it should be obvious to you that Tom: PEOPLE!!! >warp drive alone ends these debates. And it ends them with Starfleet >winning. Every battle. Tom: PEOPLE!!! >Every war. Tom: PEOPLE!!! >Every time. Tom: PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >Babylon 5 and star wars ships simply *cannot* fight Starfleet >ships from within hyperspace. Crow: Yeah, they're too damn slow. >There will then *be* *no* hyperspace >battles. The fighting, whether anyone likes it or not, Mike: Give peace a chance. >*will* occur entirely in normal space. And *in* normal space, all >quibbeling about accelerations or top nominal sublight speeds for B5 or >star wars notwithstanding, the undeniable fact of the matter is Crow: I'm a troll. >*none* of them are going to be able to achieve *any* speed at or beyond >the speed of light. Mike: Pesky laws of physics. >Well people, Starfleet ships *can*. They can, and they *will*. >And not to put too fine a point on it, Crow: Like the one on my head. >but I for one have yet to see >warp speed travel *or* maneuvering be a hinderence to either their >sensors or their use of torpedoes. Mike: Wow, how many times have they done it? Tom: Er... None. Mike: None? Crow: What about the Picard manuever. Tom: Let's not bring sex into this. >As of DS9, it doesn't even prevent >phaser use. You don't want to admit to the awesome kinetic energy of a >warp speed torpedo? Crow: About as powerful as a lit fart. >You want to hit me with a warp field's AMRE Mike: Sure, I'll hit you with anything that's handy. >(Apparant Mass-Reduction Effect), even though there's no mention of it >re torpedoes Tom: Well must we always point out the obvious to you? >and even though it still leaves more than enough KE to >vaporize any B5 or star wars ship? Mike: Wait a minute. He just said they can travel at faster than light in normal space, right? Tom: Right. Mike: And this is because of AMRE, right? Tom: Right. Mike: Because otherwise it's impossible, right? Tom: Right. Mike: But now he says you don't have AMRE? Tom: Right. Mike: What does that mean? Tom: The rules apply only when Tim wants them to Mike. >Very well. >{But even ignoring *that* reality Crow: Tim, what color's the sky in your world? >in these debates, a maximum >yield torpedo will still possess a matter/anti-matter warhead >capable of creating a blast area of not less than 15 kilometers, with >an energy release equivelant to about 60 Megatonnes.} Tom: Gee, sure would've been nice to use them against the Borg. Mike: Or the Dominion. Crow: Or the Romulans. >And warp speed travel under tactical conditions remains a fact. And it >leads to two more facts. Mike: Oh, strap yourselves in gang, he's going to try applying logic. Crow: Mike, I'm afraid I'll get motion sickness again! Mike: Just close your eyes and it'll all be over soon. >Fact one: No Trek ship at warp could be caught >by any other ship not at warp, Tom: Hmm, never saw "The Battle" either, huh. >*or* its weapons fire. Fact Two: No ship >not at warp can *avoid* being caught or hit by the warp-speed weapons >fire of a Trek ship at warp. Mike: Wow. Did this happen? Tom: No it didn't. Mike: Oh. Guess it'd make it an inference then, wouldn't it. >So, honestly people, exactly where in the >name of hell do you think you can go with this? Crow: Well, I ran out of toilet paper, so I have a few ideas. >The non-Trek ships will never know what hit them or most likely even be >able to see in coming, forget about fighting back! Crow: They're just not worth it. >So okay, okay, let's say I'm missing something pretty huge Tom: Like a brain. >when we're snipping at each other about B5 organics being weaker than a >true energy shield, or about a star destroyer's turbolasers being >worthless by definition against a Starfleet vessel. Mike: You know, I know nothing about Babylon 5, but this remark makes me believe in the power of organics one hundred percent. >And let's even say hyperspace is many times faster in *both* >storyworlds than warp drive. Tom: Whoa, don't want to go out on a limb there. Crow: In the time Voyager has taken to get to where it is, Han Solo could've hauled enough spice to get all of Coruscant high! >Can someone tell me what the hell difference it makes if we can smack >you over and over Tom: Oo, smacking him over and over... what a wonderful thought! >with as many maximum yield torpedoes and/or ACB-jacketed phaser >discharges as it takes, while you can neither hit us back, nor avoid >being hit *by* us? Crow: Cause we'll just fly in and blow the crap out of your undefended planets and then disappear before you show up? >This is not something that's a matter of interpretation. And >it's not about what sources of information are canon, official, or >inadmissable. Tom: Whatever I say is canon, and that's that. >This is about a signature technology, the establishments >of which are copiously referenced, endlessly demonstrated, and >ultimately undeniable. Mike: Except for the fact that they never use it like you say. >There's no ambiguity. There's no way to get >around it. And there's no doubt of the outcome once this most obvious >matter is acknowledged. Crow: Guys, let's just concede and maybe he'll go away. >Warp drive ends the debate. Tom: Okay, you win. You can leave now. >The imperial navy or the various B5 governments may be able to control >the rest of whatever galaxy they're in. >But they cannot hope to possess one sector of space occupied by the >UFP, or any other warp-capable civilization. Mike: This is getting a little absurd. >Personally, I maintain that Trek technology has numerous other >technological advantages that hand them each and every battle as well. Tom: Well color me surprised. >But ultimately, they don't need them. And I don't need to argue for >them. Tom, Mike, Crow: GOOD! >Warp drive ends the debate. Crow: Yeah, sure it does. *...2...3...4...5...6...(door) (robots are drawing on pieces of paper) Mike: Well, how's your projects coming? Tom: Great, just great! This art therapy stuff really does do the trick. I'm starting to feel better already. Crow: Yeah! Mike: Great, well it's something I picked up from my Uncle Earl when he spent some time in a clinic. Crow: Oh, sounds like a weirdo. Tom: Finished! Crow: Me too! Mike: Okay, well Tom, you can go first. Tom: Thank you Mike. I wrote a poem, inspired by today's experiment. *ahem* "You are the dumbest sack of cowdroppings I've ever met! I can have a more intelligent conversation with a random number generator than with you! If stupidity were measured in terms of height you'd knock the moon out of orbit! If idiocy were measured in mass you'd collapse into a black hole, which still wouldn't solve anything because your points, having no substance, would still escape and fill the world with their nonsense!!! Your posts are a waste of electrons and you are a waste of skin!!!" It's in freeverse. Mike: Uh huh, so I see. Crow: Er, I drew a pony. Mike: Very good Crow. (light flashes) (Deep 13) Dr. Forrester: Well, Nelson, not too shabby. And that's some nice poetry there Mr. Servo. I have some plans in store myself (evil maniacal laugh) Frank: This is my picture. It's a mamma bunny with two baby bunnies. Dr. Forrester: Frank. Frank: Yes, Peter Cottontail. Dr. Forrester: (sigh) Push the button... and get my forceps. (POOOF) All Star Trek items property of Paramount. All Star Wars items property of Lucasfilm. All Babylon 5 items property of Babylonian Productions and Time Warner. The One Argument That Matters created by Timothy Jones All items related to Mystery Science Theater 3000 are property of Best Brains, Inc. MiSTing performed by Chuck Sonnenburg. All rights reserved. (Stinger)But you know, it really doesn't matter.