Subject: RST3k (Re: Again STARTREK + STARWARS SHIELDS + WEAPONS) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:27:35 -0800 From: John Hansen Newsgroups: alt.startrek.vs.starwars NARRATOR: It is another paradoxically bright and sunny day on the bleak, desolate prison moon where our Rebel heroes are being held hostage. Their mission... whoops, wrong script. NARRATOR coughs. NARRATOR: As I was saying, it is another paradoxically bright and sunny day on the bleak, desolate prison moon where our Rebel heroes are being held hostage, their captors the evil Federation cowards. Over the past three seasons, they have undergone the most unimaginable tortures possible, being forced to read the worst troll posts from all of Usenet. [PAN DOWN to reveal the Rebels sitting around a holo-chess table in some wing of their prison base. CHEWBACCA is apparently battling with R2-D2.] NARRATOR: Lest they break and be subverted by the Federation, their only recourse has been to make fun of what they read. C-3PO (Standing near holo-chess table, watching): I say, let the Wookiee win. ARTOO bleeps and chirps something in reply. C-3PO: No, I have *not* been telling you that for the past several years! LANDO: Knock it off, you two. You're not going to earn us any spectacular Nielsen ratings bickering over whether or not Chewie's going to rip your arm off. LEIA: (curious) What's that thing you're holding? LANDO: Oh, that. [He holds it up] It's the latest gift from the Grand Admiral. LEIA: I should have known. LANDO: (continuing) Sabacc Made Simple. Really creative, isn't it? I'll have to think of something to send him in response. He seemed to like that Tickle-me-Noghri doll... HAN: (breaks in holding a paper) Just got this via carrier pigeon. LEIA: Very funny, Han. (She takes it anyway.) What is this... HAN: It's the bill from Johnny Cochran, amount 1,200,000 credits. LEIA: (outraged) What? He /said/ that it would only be 600,000! HAN: Well, it worked, didn't it? The court gave us custody, but only on the condition that Anakin has to go visit the Imperials every other week. LEIA: Oh, great. You don't happen to have any spare piles of cash lying around, do you? LANDO: (innocent) Who, me? Never. HAN: Speaking of which, where is Anakin? ANAKIN: (At holo-chess table, watching Chewie and R2-D2) Right here. LEIA: Thank goodness. I was beginning to wonder if you'd run off. ANAKIN: Well, it is more funner when I'm with Grandpa. He lets me dunk bad people in lava. LEIA: Anakin! HAN: (taps Leia on the shoulder) I think you need to read this as well... LEIA: What? HAN: (hands her the paper) This, that's what. They reviewed an NC-17 fanfic last week. Let's see... so many sexual references that I lost count after ten, the usual killing of Captain Needa, a choking of Prince Xizor, a catfight between Admiral Daala and Mara Jade- [MARA appears in the shimmering haze of a transporter beam, still bandaged from the previous catfight] MARA: Did someone mention me? HAN: (continuing) a reference to sheep shagging, hidden messages telling children not to eat their vegetables, Barney the Purple Dinosaur, more beastiality references, references to oral sex- JACEN: What's that? LEIA: You're not old enough to know yet. HAN: (continuing, irritated) thinly veiled insults aimed towards us, body odor references, homosexual references... [He is interrupted as the viewscreen switches on, revealing the grim visage of yours truely, Wesley Crusher.] HAN: (now very angry) I swear, Wesley, if you do that one more time I'm going to place a really *big* bounty on that ugly thing you call a head. WESLEY: Well, aren't you courteous all of a sudden. Anyway, I'm only here to tell you that I have a new present for you all. (He smiles somewhat discomfortingly) LEIA: I hope it's not another Paul thread. If it is... WESLEY: You're right, pretty lady. It's not Paul. WESLEY pauses, looks to TIMPANIST. TIMPANIST plays a quick roll. WESLEY: It's... (dramatic pause) Timothy Jones. LUKE smirks, trying to control his face. Finally succumbing, he breaks out laughing. LUKE: Timothy Jones? You mean the laughingstock of alt.startrek.vs.starwars? GHENT: The guy who thought watts and joules are interchangeable? KARRDE: That turbolasers really are lasers? LEIA: Who relied on his philosophy professor as an accurate scientific source? [Angry, Wesley switches to the post quickly, without even bothering to send the Rebels into the theatre.] "Timothy Jones" wrote in news:tXYj8.14460$P4.1240976@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net: MARA: You're right. It is Timothy. LUKE: Trolls are insignificant compared to the power of satire. ANAKIN: But we haven't even started yet! >> "1 of 32" <1_of_32@borgsphere.co.uk > wrote in message >> news:40fedb60.0203131959.438f5f29@posting.google.com... LEIA: Who's this? GAERIAL: Some other Trekkie, I presume. >> Ok, last time I posted LUKE (1 of 32): My grandma's secret recipe for chocolate chip cookies >> this I got all sorts of interesting replies >> and started a load of mini arguements. Interesting, but not really >> helpful. I will suggest a few things which I do not really think are >> very debatable (though I am sure someone will find a way) and >> hopefully get some results. HAN: Results? Ha, and he expects results on a place like alt.startrek.vs.starwars, where the topic he suggests has already been debated to death. He'd have better luck going to alt.oriental.sex.spam. LEIA: Shhh! (points toward the children) HAN: Oops. Sorry. >> Or maybe there is a web page which has done all these calcs? If so >> someone please point it out. (please don't quote wong as I've seen >> it) >> >> OK, here are my points: GHENT: Don't worry, I didn't take time to consider their uselessness. >> Firstly, there are the borg. Millions of cubes in their space (see >> scorpion pt1). > > Well we don't really know the number. But we do know their space is > vast (going around it would've taken a considerable length of time, LEIA: Like the entire series run? > or else Voyager would've been willing to do just that, MARA: Just what? JAINA: Fly through a crack in the event horizon? > and going through > it took long enough that the Borg didn't want to wait that long to get > Janeway's tactical information.) So we know they have a lot of cubes, LANDO: Wait a sec. Did this guy ever take Logic 101? First he says that their space is vast, then he tries to prove that it's vast because it took a primitive warp-driven craft months to cross it, and then he says that because it's vast it must mean that they have a lot of ships. Sounds a lot like the fallacy of non sequitur to me. KARRDE: You're right. He forgot a lot of factors, namely the speed of Voyager. It can only cover two light-years in a day at maximum speed, remember? LANDO: Of course he would forget that. It blows a hole the size of a Death Star in his argument, and he's hardly begun! > and that they use a fair number blithly against tougher obsticles. An > example would be "The Omega Directive," where Seven dismisses the loss > of many cubes and their drones (in the Borg's efforts to assimilate > the omega particle) as irrelevant. HAN: You forget that we're talking about a Collective with the tactical skills of a baboon. LUKE: Even that is overrating it. > And more importantly, we've seen > that typically one cube or sphere can defeat multiple opponents. KARRDE: Just like how one Star Destroyer can liquify the entire surface of a planet, or destroy lesser fleets. That must be why nobody in our galaxy is afraid of them. MARA: He obviously thinks that the games are valid evidence. GHENT: Oh, where you can defeat a Star Destroyer with a single X-wing? That fits so perfectly with the movies, doesn't it. > So, > as with Federation ships, they don't have to match the empire's > numbers to match their strength, or overwhelm it. LANDO: Oh, this one is gold. He goes from an unsupported claim that the Borg control vast amounts of territories to an unsupported claim that they somehow have these insanely powerful Cubes that make up for their lack of numbers. But didn't he just say that the Borg had numbers? LEIA: That's classic Jones for you. He's always contradicting himself. >> Adaptive shielding, > > Which we must acknowledge is not a panacea, but requires innovation > and an emphasis on scientific analysis to overcome. GHENT: (snorts) Like the Federation's scientific analysis? LEIA: The University of Agamar, the Obroan Institute, Maw Installation, Sienar Fleet Systems, and the list just goes on... MARA: Compared to, what, the Daystrom Institute? ALL: (chuckling) > Something the > empire's brutish strategic philosophy simply does not emphasize. HAN: Why bother countering adaptive shields when you can simply overwhelm them? ANAKIN: (holds up a sketch of a Star Destroyer vaporizing a Borg Cube) JAINA: There you go! >> ablantant hull armour, > > If you mean ablative, this isn't quite accurate. It's actually more > self-repairing, as seen for example in TNG's "Hide and Q," when the > Enterprize encountered the Borg initially at system J25. KARRDE: As if that will do much when being hit by broadsides powerful enough to... Oh bother, just look up Base Delta Zero. >> approx 150000 drones per cube. > > This may be in the ballpark, but I'm sure there's room for variation. > If the average vessel is 3 km to a side, that'd be 27 km^3. About an > average state county's worth of living space, which is of course, in > typical Borg fashon, used effeciently. MARA: (laughs) Used efficiently, as in really large open spaces that serve no useful purpose... HAN: Except looking "cool." > Allowing room for things like > their many redundnat power generators and other technology, LEIA: You know, those redundant power generators would really have come in handy in ST:FC, as would have the much-vaunted regenerative capabilities. > (which > would equate to the county's buildings and facilities), there's easily > room for this number of drones or many more. How many people live in > the average county of your state? LANDO: We're talking warships, not flying cities. Warships are rated by the amount of armor and weaponry that they carry, not how much crew they carry. By his reasoning, the /Queen of Empire,/ which could carry about 10,000 passengers when fully loaded, is a very heavy warship. HAN: A Star Destroyer carries over 37,000 in crew... LANDO: And for the most part, they're necessary to the efficient operation of the ship. But 150,000 aboard a 3km cube? What are they there for, to provide target practice for boarders? Even in Q Who they weren't that densely packed! ANAKIN: Really! If the Borg have the numbers and technology that he claims they have, then they'd have billions of cubes, each manned by only a few thousand drones. It would make much more sense than a few million cubes with 150,000 drones each. >> If you think that big shields, very big ships, mass >> production and such win, see them. > > I noticed that two others have replied to your post. On this matter, > as with the others, they seem to have missed the point. The way you > know that is in the disacknowledgement of its reasoning, evidenced by > their just restating the position you'd just addressed. LUKE: Restating the position that he just addressed? What is this guy, blind? One person pointed out that in terms of big shields, the Empire wins; in terms of very big ships, again the Empire wins; in terms of mass production, the Empire wins yet again... am I beginning to see a pattern here? > You make a > case that size alone or scale alone isn't proof of superiority (much > as a beach ball's size hardly makes its "pop" more powerfull than the > explosion of a grenade.) ANAKIN: What does a beach ball have to do with this argument? LEIA: Nothing at all. It's just an irrelevant example. If you want to compare size properly, you compare a stick of TNT to a blockbuster bomb. > They respond with just how much bigger they > contend SW ships really are. HAN: We contend?! Go get a kriffin' ruler or something and scale the ships yourself, then! LEIA: Han! > And one can only shake their heads at > this, and say yeah, and so what? The "Argument from Texas" is patently > invalid. And rather simple-minded. No offense, but one should be able > to look a little deeper than that. LUKE: They did, but he ignored it. >> Second, there are species 8472, tiny ships (smaller than voyager >> anyway). However, they can destroy borg cubes with ease (not anymore >> though, now the borg can fight back) and 10 of them can destroy >> planets. > > Actually, the number looked like 8 or 9 to me. In any case, the point > is that they didn't need a moon-sized structure (housing such an > enoumous power core that it takes up the majority of its volume) to do > it. This is a prime example of my above point. HAN: Wrong again. You see, there's this little starfighter-sized ship called the Sun Crusher... > And even more to the > point is that this same weapon (from one of those same ships) was used > against Voyager. And Voyager withstood it. Meaning Voyager, and by > extension Federation ships and perhaps those of most other governments > on roughly their level of development, can withstand at least one > tenth to one eighth of the power used to destroy a planet, if it's not > of the right energy type to affect them. [Everyone is rolling on the floor with laughter] MARA: (wiping a tear away) This is priceless. He's assuming that Species 8472 would use untold energy reserves to fire their main weapon at full power towards... what, a dinky Federation starship? > The amount is clearly more > than SW ships can withstand (they can't even take a 2kps impact from a > small rock). HAN: 2 kilometers per second! Where does he get these figures from? JACEN: His ass, I guess. LEIA: (covers Jacen's mouth) Don't say those bad words. HAN: It was an accurate assessment... > And since SW ships' weapons fire energy is either SEM > (Simple Electro-Magnetic) from laser energy, and/or straightforward > impact and friction based energy from their (arguable, but acceptable > to me) solid particle aspect, it is demonstrably of the wrong type, as > their navagational deflectors are immune from the first entirely, KARRDE: All right, let me break this down. First he says that Star Wars weapons are simple electromagnetic lasers with a particle component. Well, fine. But then he says that the particle components inflict their damage due to /FRICTION/? Where did he learn physics, at the University of Kindergarden? C-3PO: It is entirely possible, sir. KARRDE: (continuing) And then he goes on to say, or rather repeat, that Trek ships' navigational deflectors are immune to laser fire? I suppose he missed the part in "The Outrageous Okona" when the "harmless" laser blasts from the "primitive" ships caused actual DAMAGE to the Enterprise! > and > only affected by the second when the object(s) in question are at > least larger than small asteroids (which blaster gas particles clearly > aren't), and/or at warp speeds (which SW weapons fire never is). LANDO: I wish Lobot was here. With that cyborg-enhanced brain of his, he might actually be able to make some sense of that sentence. C-3PO: May I be of assistance, sir? I am fluent in over six million forms of communication... LANDO: (groans) All right, all right... C-3PO: It appears that Jones is saying that Federation navigational deflectors, which are designed solely for the purpose of moving particles out of the way while at warp, can defend against the particle component that he supposes turbolasers have. LANDO: That's what I thought he was saying. It's like he was delivered here in a time capsule, complete with vintage 1999 arguments. > This > means Trek ships don't even need their tactical shields raised to > shrug off anything the imperials can thriw at them, HAN: He really is a complete idiot. The navigational deflector only projects forwards, not in all directions, and it wouldn't defend against turbolasers anyway. What is he trying to get at? > other than the DS > superlaser, which itslef remains debateable, GHENT: The Death Star's superlaser remains debateable? I thought that the general consensus by all sides was that it was impossible for it to induce a fission reaction in a planet, simply because planets don't have enough fissionable material present. > and would have to be at > more than one-tenth power to have an effect in any case. ANAKIN: Even one-tenth of the Death Star's power is far in excess of the "twelve gigawatt" power level of the Enterprise. > {References > for Trek ships' invulnerability to lasers come from the TNG ep "The > Outrageous Okana." Their ability to deflect solid matter ranging in > size from particles and micrometeorites up to and including small > asteroids is both common-sensably LEIA: Using Paul's definition of "common sense" as spelled out in the NRWD. JACEN: And coining words, too. > obvious from their traveling FTL in > and through normal space without utilizing tactical shields, and is > spelled out additionally in sources such as the TNG Enterprize-D > Technical Manual.} ACKBAR: Never mind how absurd all of the above reference is. >> Unlike SW, species 8472 was know to destroy planets on a >> large scale (see scorpion pt2, when the borg described the damage >> done to uni-matrix 10). If you think big weapons are the key, see >> them. > > Notice here, too, that your detractors try to argue in response that > the empire can do this too, totally missing the point that it's a lot > easier for species 8472. The empire has to pour tremendous resources > and time and manpower into creating a singular installation of moon > type dimensions that manages to do its thing a couple of times at most > before being destroyed do to some facile vulnerability. HAN: Of course, this neglects the fact that Species 8472 wasn't constantly being attacked by a coalition of freedom fighters that knew exactly where all the weaknesses were and how to exploit them... LEIA: And when Voyager came around with an exploit for 8472's weakness, they suddenly turned tail and ran for their home dimension. > Species > destroyed many thousands of worlds quickly and effeciently, no one > "job" taking more than a small cluster of 8 to 10 bioships, LANDO: Where did he get that "thousands of worlds" quote? HAN: Same place as all the others -- his ass. > collectively massing no more than a single Trek starship, if that. And > they were very difficult to destroy or even withstand for long until > the Feds (specifically the doctor) made a scientific breakthrough that > needed Borg technology to make work. HAN: Oh, yes. That is of course why we were so unafraid of letting the second Death Star get completed, since if it had been completed we would have had no way of stopping it. Of course we never had a battle over Endor as a diversion. Of course that's why the commando team on the surface almost failed in bringing down the shield generator. Of course that's why the Falcon almost got shot down when it went into the Death Star. > In other words, species 8472 had > no obvious vulnerability. Equivocating them to the DS because they can > both destroy a planet is like comparing a tidal wave to a light rain > just because they both can cause moisture. LANDO: Another irrelevant example. >> Lightsabres presumably mean exactly what they sound like, very strong >> focused light (same idea as lasers, which can melt things if they are >> strong >> and focused enough). This is light, so it has wavelength + >> frequency, which >> means borg shields could adapt to it. > > Well, let's be carefull here. On the one hand, you have clear > references to them as "laser swords" by the most canonistic of > sources, a character line of dialogue from one of the films > (specifically, Anakin in TPM.) MARA: Hah! He takes the word of a nine-year-old to be good proof for his argument! What next, using Barney the Dinosaur as an acceptable source? > On the other hand, you've got visual > evidence that they react as "solid" to other lightsabers, which even > the densest beam of laser light wouldn't do. This would indicate a > field effect, created by E-M forces, generated either by something in > the base of the weapon handle itself, or by a stream of particles it > emits. Either way, the printed sources aren't too much help, because > those that are acceptable as evidence are carefull not to be too > specific as to beam composition. LUKE: And yet he ignores even the fact that even particle streams would pass through each other. The particle streams would have to be as dense as a piece of metal in order to block each other the way they do. >> Q! Obvious this, if you think powerful seemingly magical >> entities/forces are the key then see him. (for SW that would be "the >> force" (see a whole load of episodes) > > I love how all the SW proponents can say in response is that Q would > probably be neutral. Hmmm...well, probably, but that's not the point, > now is it. And the Q did help Picard against the Borg...all he had to > do was ask. MARA: Yep, Q helped Picard all right... by letting him get assimilated. Some friend he is. >> Personally, I believe ST would win, even though I do love SW as well, >> but of course it's not about which one you like better but which has >> better technology. >> >> So, bottom line: >> >> Please could someone post ALL the calcs, in one place that tell us >> about: >> >> ST Weapons (eg 8472's weapons, borg weapons, fed weapons) >> ST Shields (eg E-D shields, borg shields, E-E shields) > > The Trek Technical Manuals and Encyclopedia have the best printed Trek > tech information. Visual and spoken dialogue evidence is gleaned from > watching the films and series. ANAKIN: Except, they're filled with glaring errors and have been firmly placed as "non-canon" by none other than novel editor John Ordover. >> SW Weapons (eg turbo-lasers, DS superlaser, ti fighter lasers) >> SW Shields (eg SD shields, DS shields, anything else that has >> shields) > > You can get some usefull printed information from the SW Technical > Journal (for example, it states that photon torpedos have a yield of > "slightly less than 1 kiloton," whereas the E-D Tech Manual states the > warhead of a photon torpedo is 1.5 kg of antimatter, which when > combined with as much normal matter produces a variable warhead yield > of up to abour 60 MEGAtons, making them some 60,000 times more > powerfull.) There is also some in the SW Encyclopedia and their > "Essentual Guides," particularly to weapons and ships. You just have > to be carefull to watch their attributions. They derive their stats > and descriptions from both acceptable, canon sources, like the films, > and from obviously non-canon, worthless, non-evidentiary sources like > the non-film novels. (Lucas only authorizes them, he doesn't read > them, meaning he only cares about their not screwing with his history > of established events, not about future events since he's said he > won't make episodes 7-9, and not about their technological > establishments. That's whay, if it's not written by Lucas himself, or > at least by someone directly involved with the making of the films, > they're worthless or at least non-canon, just like any other > fanfiction would be.) LUKE: I sense a double standard here. Take the weakest possible Star Wars source and the strongest possible Star Trek source, disregarding the fact that photon torpedoes have been shown to explode with less power than a stick of dynamite, not to mention disregarding Paramount's canon policy which clearly states that *only* the shows are canon, and all other publications are non-canon--not even official! YODA: Get the Star Wars canon wrong, did he. Official the novels are, contradicted by the movies only. Contradicted the 1kT proton torpedo is. > Really though, in the end, the best results will come from not just > relying on what you get as such. That's only where you start. From > there, you must work with your information, understanding its > implications, and making calculations based on them. Thus will your > refutations of the SWersies be obtained. LEIA: In other words, follow the golden NRWD. [Everyone snickers] >> (Also, could we please not debate whether photon torps are >> matter/anti-matter or TNT because it is clear that they are M/MA from >> several episodes (which I will mention if anyone has the stupidity to >> ask)) > > The Tech Manuals show this as well...not to mention common sense. Wehn > one states a yield figure in Megatons, for example, they are only > comparing it to the power of so much TNT, not saying it was literally > caused by detonating TNT. You know, it's ironic that the other side > keeps hounding the Trek proponents about terminological equivocation > (i.e., they're not "lasers" just because they're always being called > that, etc etc), yet in instances like that they've no problem doing it > themselves, and with far less justification or reasoning. ACKBAR: He really has been in a time capsule for a long time. He thinks we're actually /stating/ that photon torpedoes have /TNT/ in them? Of COURSE we're comparing the yields! The only problem with matter- antimatter reactions is that most of the energy is released in the form of high-energy radiation, which doesn't do all that much to hulls except vaporize them in the immediate vicinity of the detonation! GHENT: It also blows his argument that Trek ships are immune to electromagnetic energy out of the water, since photon torpedoes are /most/ effective against shields. KARRDE: Not to mention all the times that Trek shields were disabled by steller coronae, diffuse nebulae, et al. > Good Hunting! JAINA: Troll season is now open. LEIA: Good one. Have you been watching Daffy Duck again? JAINA: Yep. That Elmer Fudd is pretty funny! > P.S.: As the Romulans said to Picard "We are back!" Or I am in any > case...here and there. LUKE: I have felt a terrible disturbance in the Force... as if a million voices cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. > Booga-booga! :) JACEN: That sounds like the mating call of a certain species of woolamander on Yavin IV. LEIA: Jacen! JACEN: Well, why'd you have to take away my Sailor Moon collection? LEIA: (hushed) This is no time to talk about that. HAN comes storming over holding another letter. HAN: I knew it! Leia, look at this! Those greedy Imperials took advantage of us and ran THREE shows while we were getting our contracts fixed in-between the seasons! MARA: I sense another lawsuit coming on... WESLEY appears on the viewscreen again. A collective groan goes up from the audience. WESLEY: Right again, Red. LUKE: Shut up, Wesley. WESLEY: I'm only doing my job. ANAKIN: You're not Wesley. I killed you already. WESLEY's picture suddenly fritzes, finally dissolving to form... Q. LEIA: I should have known. Q: (embarassed) And I would have gotten away for it if it weren't for you meddling kids. ALL: (laugh heartily) FADE TO BLACK ROLL CREDITS Music is the Mos Eisely Cantina theme CREDITS IST3k/RST3k Concept by Major Tierce Cast: IMPERIAL Emperor Palpatine Darth Vader Grand Admiral Thrawn Grand Moff Tarkin Admiral Daala Ysanne Isard Mara Jade Captain Pellaeon "Pelly" Captain Needa General Veers REBEL Admiral Ackbar General Garm Bel Iblis Yoda Luke Skywalker Lando Calrissian Leia Organa-Solo Han Solo Mon Mothma Wedge Antilles Winter Gaerial Capistan Talon Karrde Mara Jade-Skywalker Ghent Callista Obi-Wan Kenobi Chewbacca R2-D2 Jaina Solo Jacen Solo Anakin Solo FEDERATION Q Captain Jean-Luc Picard Captain Benjamin Sisko Computer Kira Nerys Seven of Nine Wesley Crusher Deanna Troi Writers: Major Tierce Charles Glasgow MKSheppard John Hansen Technical Advisors: Mr. Bean C-3PO IMP-22 COPYRIGHT © 2002 ASVS ENTERPRISES LIMITED ALL RIGHTS RESERVED ISARD (O.S.): You know, I just realized that the Rebels have twice as many people as we do. I think we need to sue them to get it balanced. LEIA (O.S.): We do not! ISARD (O.S.): And then there's that little matter of Jade switching sides every other episode... MARA (O.S.): I can't help it if the Federation people are forcing me to move back and forth! ANAKIN (O.S.): Apology accepted, Captain Needa. LEIA (O.S.): What? You didn't just kill anybody, did you? ANAKIN (O.S.): (innocently) No, of course not. But it's traditional. A muffled THUMP is heard. LEIA (O.S.): What was that? VOICE (O.S.): He's dead, Jim. IMP-22 (O.S.): It is Captain Needa. LEIA (O.S.): Who killed him? THRAWN (O.S.): Colonel Mustard, with the candlestick, in the Courtyard. [The entire cast has a good chuckle as the program ends] -- Remove socks when replying via E-mail