Thread: Red Shirt Ensign vs. Imperial Stormtrooper
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 18:33:50 +1300


Which would win??!! I reckon the Stormie because they look cool
Wedge Antilles


Check out www.lightlink.com/grudge and look at thier history section.
They've run through a number of matches like this one, as well as the
Enterprise vs. the Death Star, Jack Mclane vs. the DS, Obi-Wan vs. Vader
if he really tried, Independence day aliens vs. Borg, and Chewbacca vs.
Worf. Its done by voting.
Nathan Yates


The Stormtrooper would definitely win, for several reasons:

* Stormtroopers do nothing but combat-training. Ensigns waste time learning
Federation history and the Prime Directive and whatnot.

* Stormtroopers have better weapons. (See discussions on relative weapon
strengths of blasters and phasers.)

* A stormtrooper can see in the dark, through fog, can live in vacuum for
hours, has a helmet that filters nerve gas, etc.

* A stromtrooper carries a thermal detonator. I'd like to see a redshirt
deal with *that*. (Remember, no running away - it's in the FAQ.)

So, in conclusion, stormtroopers kick ass.

Kynes


Yes, if they were in a fashion contest (the winter season), then Storm Troopers
would win. Though their style is a bit too plain for my taste.
Elim Garak


Check out the grudge match as some one said.

One theory that was posted their pionts out:

1 A stormtrooper can't hit any target at all.

2 You can not shoot in the general direction of a Red shirt and not kill
him.

This means that as soon a storm trooper shoots at a red shirt 1 and 2 will
come in to oppsition with each other and the entire universe will be
destoryed in one vast contradition.

As I said this is not my theory (orginal posted on the grudge match page
witch some one else has posted the url for) but I think it makes sense.
Jared Hinman


> 1 A stormtrooper can't hit any target at all.

Wrong.

The Rebel soldiers on board on the _Tantive IV_. A whole bunch of Jawas.
Luke's parents. (ANH) The Rebel ground troops at Echo Base Hoth. C-3P0 on
board Cloud City. (TESB) Quite a few dead Ewoks. (Not enough though,
dammit!). Princess Leia's arm. (ROTJ)

We've seen stormtroopers quite able to kill and injure a lot of things. The
only people invulnerable to stormtrooper marksmanship are star characters.
*Bit players* die like flies against stormtroopers.

And there ain't no player more bit than a red-shirted ensign.
ChuckG


<Unfortunately, my files don't include the response to ChuckG's message.
However, as seen in the reply below by ChuckG, the person gave examples
for poor Stormtrooper marksmanship, by citing charactures who weren't
hit by Stormtroopers in battle.>


> Princess Leia in Cloud City. (TESB) Luke in Cloud City. (TESB) Luke, Han,
> Leia, Chewie, C-3PO and R2D2 in the first Death Star. (ANH) Han, Chewie, C-
> 3PO on Endor. (ROTJ)See a trend?


Yes. The trend is that stormtroopers slaughter bit players with ease but
don't overcome star characters. So Captain Kirk, for example, could take
apart stormtroopers without breathing hard. He has Star Character Power.

A red-shirted ensign, OTOH, is a disposable bacon bit. Stormtroopers would
munch him just as easily as they've munched dozens of other bit players.

> > And there ain't no player more bit than a red-shirted ensign.


You missed this the first time around.
ChuckG

>The Rebel soldiers on board on the _Tantive IV_.

Doesn't count, they were aiming for the droids as they walked across the
hall, the Rebel soldiers were just unfortunately standing behind them.

Note this is the proper way to get an effective storm trooper attack, have
them shoot at something that is in front of what you want shot.

>A whole bunch of Jawas.
>Luke's parents. (ANH)


Off screen, so we really can't use it as a judge of storm trooper
marksmenship.

>The Rebel ground troops at Echo Base Hoth.

Mostly killed by the AT-ATs, not storm troopers.

>C-3P0 on
>board Cloud City. (TESB)


Again happened off screen.

>Quite a few dead Ewoks. (Not enough though,

I seem to remember 2 dead Ewoks. I belive this is the prime argument
against Stormtrooper competence. The got their butts wiped by teddy
bears, and they were the Emperor's Finest.

>dammit!). Princess Leia's arm. (ROTJ)

Are you saying they were aiming for her arm and not a kill shot?

Stormtrooper 1: Yes after 3 movies and 17 million rounds of ammo we finally
hit something.

Stormtrooper 2: Well only grazed her really.

Stormtrooper 3: Look out she's got a gu....Arrghh

>We've seen stormtroopers quite able to kill and injure a lot of things. The
>only people invulnerable to stormtrooper marksmanship are star characters.
>*Bit players* die like flies against stormtroopers.

>And there ain't no player more bit than a red-shirted ensign.


Also in case you missed it, it was a joke. It played on the fact that
from on-screen evidence, both Stormtroopers and Red-shirts exist for one
reason only, to add to the body count. Both are such losers that when
they face each other, the universe would cease to be because it could not
resolve which are the bigger losers.
Jared Hinman


>Doesn't count, they were aiming for the droids as the walked across the
>hall, the Rebel soilder were just unfortunatly standing behinded them.

This is unbelievably asinine hair-splitting. The droids were not in
every scene involving combat between the Rebels and the stormtroopers
yet there were no survivors from the Rebel ship save Princess Leia, who
was captured alive.

Also, this presupposes that Imperial stormtroopers would ignore *people
shooting at them* in order to concentrate all their firepower on two
droids. I'm sorry, but only Borg drones are that dumb.

>>A whole bunch of Jawas.
>>Luke's parents. (ANH)

>Off screen, so we real can't use it as a judge of storm trooper
>marksmenship.


We saw the bodies on-screen. What do you think killed them, a homicidal
tooth fairy?

"These blast points. Too accurate for Sandpeople... only Imperial
stormtroopers are this precise." -- Obi-Wan Kenobi.

>>The Rebel ground troops at Echo Base Hoth.
>
>Mostly killed by the AT-ATs not storm troopers.


"Imperial troops have entered the base! Imperial troops have entered
the base!" -- anonymous voice on Echo Base Hoth's PA system

Do you really think they drove AT-ATs down this little base corridors?

>>C-3P0 on board Cloud City. (TESB)

>Again happened off screen
.

Again, we heard one shot and saw a body. Are you going to propose that
somebody else came in, shot him, and left him for the stormtroopers?

>>Quite a few dead Ewoks. (Not enough though,

>I seem to remember 2 dead Ewoks.

With one salvo.

>I believe this is the prime argument against stormer trooper compentance.
>They got their butts wiped by teddy bears, and they were the Emperor's Finest.


That argument has been held before. The consensus was that
twenty-to-one odds, 99% perfect camouflage, total surprise, lots of
trees to hide in, AND Chewbacca driving an AT-ST walker can really tilt
things in favor of the teddy bears. Vietnam proved that heavily armed
US Army troopers, with everything from machine guns to tanks to
aircraft, could get their butts waxed by lightly armed insurgents in
their native jungle.

>>dammit!). Princess Leia's arm. (ROTJ)

>Are you saying they were aiming for her arm and not a kill shot?

Are you saying that a snap shot at 20 meters is easy? Dude, try it
yourself sometime with a real gun. You're a skilled marksman if you can
hit a man-sized silouhette ANYWHERE under those conditions.

>Stormtrooper 3: Look out see got a gu....Arrghh


Stormtroopers don't have X-ray vision. How tragic.

>>And there ain't no player more bit than a red-shirted ensign.
>
>Also in case you missed it, it was a joke.

The ST fanatic's final last resort -- when losing the argument, claim it
was only a joke.
ChuckG

>The ST fanatic's final last resort -- when losing the argument, claim it
>was only a joke.

I am guessing you never finished reading my orignal post. It was quote a
theory put out on the WWWF Grudge Match page (http://www.lightlink.com/grudge/)
go there, they have a couple ST vs SW things up there, read them and then
tell me how they can be considered anything but a joke.

But any way to recap my orignal post, after stating storm troopers
couldn't hit the broadside of a barn when shooting at it form the inside,
I then stated that you can't shoot at a red shirt and not kill him. There
now I have slamed both the Stormtroopers and the Red shirts so why am I
branded as a ST fanatic? I then ended the post by state no one would win
because the stormtrooper fire on a red shirt will cause a contradiction
between these two laws and destory the whole universe, now would some one
pleas explain how this can be anything else other then a joke.

Yes the storm troopers at the start of a ANH actuall manged to kill a few
rebels and jawas, but after that they become complete morons. On
occassion you have also seen a Red Shirt beam back to the Enterprise alive
to but in both case these are the ecceptions and not the rules.

By the way I thought the ST fanatics final resort was to state the source
wasn't canon.
Jared Hinman


>I am guessing you never finished reading my orignal post. It was quote
>a theory put out on the WWWF Grudge Match page (http://www.lightlink.com/grudge/)
>go there, they have a couple ST vs SW things up there, read them and then
>tell me how they can be considered anything but a joke.

I know those, and they are jokes.

>But any way to recap my orignal post, after stating storm troopers
>couldn't hit the broadside of a barn when shooting at it form the
>inside, I then stated that you can't shoot at a red shirt and not kill him.
>There now I have slamed both the Stormtroopers and the Red shirts so why am I
>branded as a ST fanatic? I then ended the post by state no one would
>win because the stormtrooper fire on a red shirt will cause a contradiction
>between these two laws and destory the whole universe, now would some
>one pleas explain how this can be anything else other then a joke.

All I can say in my defense is that after several weeks of going around
and around with both Paul Jacques AND Elim Garak, your sense of humor
really suffers.

>By the way I thought the ST fanatics final resort was to state the
>source wasn't canon.

No, that's next-to-last.
ChuckG


>Do you have a sense of humour?

You ask this of the co-author of Imperial Science Theater 3000?
Bwahahahahaaa!

>You take this ng far too seriously. Anyone
>with half a brain (yes, even Paul)

Daala -- Paul has half a brain?

Pellaeon -- Yes, but not half of a human's brain. An amoeba's brain,
perhaps.

Jade -- Quit holding hands, you two!

>could have seen that his post was a
>joke. Go play with your Luke Skywalker doll.

Sorry, I prefer Beanie Babies. (LOL)
ChuckG


>And there ain't no player more bit than a red-shirted ensign.

yep that is so true but I'll say this for the red-shirts:
when they get offed they get offed in a big way, a stormy get shot he falls
to the ground but when a red-shirt get nailed say by a lighting bolt
all you see is a pair of smoking boots.
now that's comady
HIT-MAN


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